1 00:00:01,640 --> 00:00:04,040 The following content is provided under a Creative 2 00:00:04,040 --> 00:00:05,580 Commons license. 3 00:00:05,580 --> 00:00:07,880 Your support will help MIT OpenCourseWare 4 00:00:07,880 --> 00:00:12,270 continue to offer high quality educational resources for free. 5 00:00:12,270 --> 00:00:14,870 To make a donation or view additional materials 6 00:00:14,870 --> 00:00:18,830 from hundreds of MIT courses, visit MIT OpenCourseWare 7 00:00:18,830 --> 00:00:20,000 at ocw.mit.edu. 8 00:00:21,920 --> 00:00:23,670 NATHAN PHILLIPS: Where we are scientists-- 9 00:00:23,670 --> 00:00:26,750 I'm speaking as a professional scientist-- 10 00:00:26,750 --> 00:00:30,350 and the wall they we're hitting in communicating our science, 11 00:00:30,350 --> 00:00:35,040 and having things translate out of there-- 12 00:00:35,040 --> 00:00:37,850 I'm aware of a paper that was just 13 00:00:37,850 --> 00:00:40,220 published a few weeks ago that's on the importance 14 00:00:40,220 --> 00:00:42,550 of storytelling in science. 15 00:00:42,550 --> 00:00:47,390 And that they found that some published journal articles that 16 00:00:47,390 --> 00:00:50,120 had more of a narrative structure are getting 17 00:00:50,120 --> 00:00:54,510 cited more because people want to hear stories. 18 00:00:54,510 --> 00:00:58,137 The dry, scientific, just the facts aren't working. 19 00:00:58,137 --> 00:00:59,220 They want to hear stories. 20 00:00:59,220 --> 00:01:01,500 So I want to share my story with you 21 00:01:01,500 --> 00:01:04,970 about how I got involved in this gas leak stuff, 22 00:01:04,970 --> 00:01:07,490 and then I'll hand the baton to Audrey, 23 00:01:07,490 --> 00:01:09,900 and she'll take it from there. 24 00:01:09,900 --> 00:01:15,110 But I started about this thing about the methane gas leaks 25 00:01:15,110 --> 00:01:17,930 as a citizen. 26 00:01:17,930 --> 00:01:21,770 This started in 2010, November 2010, 27 00:01:21,770 --> 00:01:26,550 for me, walking two blocks away from our home in Newton, 28 00:01:26,550 --> 00:01:28,380 in the Auburndale village of Newton, 29 00:01:28,380 --> 00:01:33,080 with my 10-year-old son, who was 7 or 8 years old 30 00:01:33,080 --> 00:01:34,345 at the time, Julian. 31 00:01:34,345 --> 00:01:36,800 And two blocks away from our home, 32 00:01:36,800 --> 00:01:39,260 we came upon a gas leak, and someone 33 00:01:39,260 --> 00:01:44,360 who was working on gas leaks, Bob Ackely, Gas Safety USA. 34 00:01:44,360 --> 00:01:47,290 He's a 30-year professional, non-scientist, 35 00:01:47,290 --> 00:01:50,860 but that curiosity, what are you doing there. 36 00:01:50,860 --> 00:01:54,880 He looked like Ghostbusters with a metal detector, 37 00:01:54,880 --> 00:01:56,730 but it was a gas meter. 38 00:01:56,730 --> 00:02:00,650 And that's how I got involved in understanding 39 00:02:00,650 --> 00:02:03,080 this problem with gas leaks. 40 00:02:03,080 --> 00:02:05,210 So it was as a citizen. 41 00:02:05,210 --> 00:02:08,240 And for me, that has started a process 42 00:02:08,240 --> 00:02:14,480 by which I've grown as a scientist citizen 43 00:02:14,480 --> 00:02:18,710 and come into a community science framework, 44 00:02:18,710 --> 00:02:22,975 working with Audrey and a whole group of other citizens 45 00:02:22,975 --> 00:02:23,600 in a community. 46 00:02:23,600 --> 00:02:26,060 And we've defined, I think, a community 47 00:02:26,060 --> 00:02:28,640 that crosses all types of boundaries 48 00:02:28,640 --> 00:02:31,250 to address the problem of gas leaks. 49 00:02:31,250 --> 00:02:34,670 So from that first chance citizen 50 00:02:34,670 --> 00:02:43,700 kind of experience for me, till 2013, the science part of this 51 00:02:43,700 --> 00:02:48,080 developed that we mapped out over 3,000 of these gas leaks 52 00:02:48,080 --> 00:02:49,950 in the city of Boston. 53 00:02:49,950 --> 00:02:54,530 And then we followed it up with a study in which we estimated 54 00:02:54,530 --> 00:02:57,620 that the amount of gas being lost in Eastern Massachusetts 55 00:02:57,620 --> 00:03:02,720 amounted to about 10% of the Commonwealth's greenhouse gas 56 00:03:02,720 --> 00:03:04,700 emissions inventory. 57 00:03:04,700 --> 00:03:13,760 So that propelled a coalition of a community to then say, 58 00:03:13,760 --> 00:03:16,160 how do we move our political leaders 59 00:03:16,160 --> 00:03:19,310 to actually create policy to address this situation? 60 00:03:19,310 --> 00:03:22,800 So it's been a really fulfilling thing for me. 61 00:03:22,800 --> 00:03:25,925 And I will say that the science that we did, actually, 62 00:03:25,925 --> 00:03:31,670 and what we published in the journals, is not new. 63 00:03:31,670 --> 00:03:35,000 The problem had been known about for decades. 64 00:03:35,000 --> 00:03:37,980 It's just that it was not known to the public. 65 00:03:37,980 --> 00:03:40,970 So we found citizen after citizens 66 00:03:40,970 --> 00:03:43,160 in different neighborhoods of Boston that would say, 67 00:03:43,160 --> 00:03:44,840 oh yeah, I know about a gas leak. 68 00:03:44,840 --> 00:03:47,535 I smell it every time I go walking to the store. 69 00:03:47,535 --> 00:03:49,550 And so what we realized is that there 70 00:03:49,550 --> 00:03:53,810 were hundreds of anecdotes that were completely 71 00:03:53,810 --> 00:03:55,560 siloed from each other. 72 00:03:55,560 --> 00:03:59,930 And once we put a map out there, the community, 73 00:03:59,930 --> 00:04:02,270 everyone could see the whole thing collectively 74 00:04:02,270 --> 00:04:03,570 at the same time. 75 00:04:03,570 --> 00:04:05,330 And that was the only thing we did. 76 00:04:05,330 --> 00:04:08,540 We just made it visible. 77 00:04:08,540 --> 00:04:10,520 And Audrey took it to the next step, 78 00:04:10,520 --> 00:04:12,302 and I'll pass the baton to you. 79 00:04:12,302 --> 00:04:13,468 AUDREY SCHULMAN: OK, thanks. 80 00:04:13,468 --> 00:04:15,680 So I'm just going to talk for one second 81 00:04:15,680 --> 00:04:19,490 about what actually gas leaks are, since-- 82 00:04:19,490 --> 00:04:21,200 from pipes under the street, right? 83 00:04:21,200 --> 00:04:23,780 So a lot of our pipes under our street are really old. 84 00:04:23,780 --> 00:04:28,040 Here's a close up detail of back bay, a National Grid map, 85 00:04:28,040 --> 00:04:30,890 very small detail of it, and you can see that two 86 00:04:30,890 --> 00:04:32,420 of the pipes running down-- 87 00:04:32,420 --> 00:04:37,550 the 1860 one is a pipe from 1860 running down Beacon Street. 88 00:04:37,550 --> 00:04:42,830 And two streets away running down Comm Ave is one from 1882. 89 00:04:42,830 --> 00:04:44,880 And those pipes are still in use. 90 00:04:44,880 --> 00:04:50,229 So we've got some really old infrastructure around. 91 00:04:50,229 --> 00:04:52,770 The problem with gas leaks is, they're potentially explosive. 92 00:04:52,770 --> 00:04:56,600 This is a picture of the explosion in Harlem about two 93 00:04:56,600 --> 00:04:59,920 years ago, I think 2014. 94 00:04:59,920 --> 00:05:04,050 As they gas percolates up through the soil it, 95 00:05:04,050 --> 00:05:06,810 pushes oxygen out and trees actually 96 00:05:06,810 --> 00:05:08,910 need to breathe oxygen through their roots. 97 00:05:08,910 --> 00:05:10,530 So they can die. 98 00:05:13,310 --> 00:05:17,700 And then it's, as Nathan said, a powerful greenhouse gas. 99 00:05:17,700 --> 00:05:22,080 If you burn natural gas, it's turned into CO2. 100 00:05:22,080 --> 00:05:24,870 If you don't burn it, it stays as methane. 101 00:05:24,870 --> 00:05:27,960 Methane, on a 20-year time frame, 102 00:05:27,960 --> 00:05:32,970 is 86 times more damaging than CO2. 103 00:05:32,970 --> 00:05:35,630 And finally, we have to pay for it 104 00:05:35,630 --> 00:05:37,560 because the utilities can pass that cost 105 00:05:37,560 --> 00:05:39,960 on to us, the ratepayers. 106 00:05:39,960 --> 00:05:42,040 So it's sort of just insulting. 107 00:05:42,040 --> 00:05:45,090 So when I read about Nathan's first, 108 00:05:45,090 --> 00:05:47,860 I run an energy efficiency nonprofit. 109 00:05:47,860 --> 00:05:51,870 And primarily, we used to work in the buildings of nonprofits 110 00:05:51,870 --> 00:05:54,870 to help them lower their energy bills and energy emissions. 111 00:05:54,870 --> 00:05:57,840 And so then, a lot with Mass Save, 112 00:05:57,840 --> 00:06:01,380 which is the state's energy efficiency 113 00:06:01,380 --> 00:06:03,850 state-funded program. 114 00:06:03,850 --> 00:06:06,330 And so I read about Nathan's research 115 00:06:06,330 --> 00:06:08,700 when he surveyed all of Boston and found 116 00:06:08,700 --> 00:06:11,090 those over 3,300 gas leaks. 117 00:06:11,090 --> 00:06:12,840 And there was one line in the article that 118 00:06:12,840 --> 00:06:18,930 said that the amount of gas lost in just Boston alone 119 00:06:18,930 --> 00:06:21,810 totally erased all of the state's energy efficiency 120 00:06:21,810 --> 00:06:23,890 programs. 121 00:06:23,890 --> 00:06:25,980 And so I was that was it. 122 00:06:25,980 --> 00:06:27,780 I was in. 123 00:06:27,780 --> 00:06:32,730 So I called up Nathan and said, how can I help? 124 00:06:32,730 --> 00:06:35,670 And he was kind enough to loan us 125 00:06:35,670 --> 00:06:38,790 his extremely fancy cool equipment, which 126 00:06:38,790 --> 00:06:43,150 is called the Picarro High Precision Natural Gas Analyzer. 127 00:06:43,150 --> 00:06:47,190 And we drove it all over Cambridge and Somerville. 128 00:06:47,190 --> 00:06:50,370 So the yellow lines are where we drove-- 129 00:06:50,370 --> 00:06:52,350 or not, we Bob Ackley-- 130 00:06:52,350 --> 00:06:55,110 drove. 131 00:06:55,110 --> 00:07:00,060 And the spikes are where there is elevated levels of methane 132 00:07:00,060 --> 00:07:02,460 found. 133 00:07:02,460 --> 00:07:04,260 And it's sort of fascinating. 134 00:07:04,260 --> 00:07:09,060 We found no correlation between income level of neighborhoods. 135 00:07:12,110 --> 00:07:14,330 Because they're just-- you'll see them 136 00:07:14,330 --> 00:07:16,610 sort of somewhat clustered together 137 00:07:16,610 --> 00:07:19,100 because neighborhoods are built at the same time, 138 00:07:19,100 --> 00:07:22,130 generally, using the same infrastructure, same material. 139 00:07:24,660 --> 00:07:30,170 Here's what I call the Alps of North Somerville. 140 00:07:30,170 --> 00:07:34,760 And we will be going, we'll be doing a leak survey 141 00:07:34,760 --> 00:07:37,970 in the fantastic van with the Picarro, 142 00:07:37,970 --> 00:07:41,840 so you can come along and see these on your own, 143 00:07:41,840 --> 00:07:45,990 and do some surveying on your own. 144 00:07:45,990 --> 00:07:47,930 AUDIENCE: And smell it. 145 00:07:47,930 --> 00:07:49,971 AUDREY SCHULMAN: Yeah, I mean we can also smell-- 146 00:07:49,971 --> 00:07:52,257 see what's fascinating to me, is like, near my house-- 147 00:07:52,257 --> 00:07:53,840 I would always bike along the Charles, 148 00:07:53,840 --> 00:07:55,340 and there was just one huge gas leak 149 00:07:55,340 --> 00:07:56,780 I would smell all the time. 150 00:07:56,780 --> 00:07:59,067 And I would always think, like, can't 151 00:07:59,067 --> 00:08:00,650 be because I'm looking around, and I'm 152 00:08:00,650 --> 00:08:03,030 seeing all the other people, and they're just walking by. 153 00:08:03,030 --> 00:08:06,890 So I always thought, like, I must just be making it up. 154 00:08:06,890 --> 00:08:07,952 But then I called it in. 155 00:08:07,952 --> 00:08:08,660 And it was fixed. 156 00:08:08,660 --> 00:08:11,090 And after that, I never smelled it again. 157 00:08:11,090 --> 00:08:14,790 And that was so-- like we just don't believe our noses. 158 00:08:14,790 --> 00:08:18,980 So after we did the Cambridge Somerville work, 159 00:08:18,980 --> 00:08:21,320 I thought, we've got to scale this up somehow. 160 00:08:21,320 --> 00:08:27,450 I found some arcane data on the Department of Public Utilities 161 00:08:27,450 --> 00:08:32,030 site, where they have to give a lot of information, including 162 00:08:32,030 --> 00:08:35,750 this, which-- 163 00:08:35,750 --> 00:08:38,429 over 300 pages of this sort of stuff. 164 00:08:38,429 --> 00:08:41,526 But you'll see that there's actually addresses there. 165 00:08:41,526 --> 00:08:43,400 So as soon as I saw that there were addresses 166 00:08:43,400 --> 00:08:48,650 showing where the leaks were, I thought, cool, I can map it. 167 00:08:48,650 --> 00:08:54,410 So I mapped every gas leak in Massachusetts on Google Maps, 168 00:08:54,410 --> 00:08:55,940 so they're zoomable. 169 00:08:55,940 --> 00:08:59,790 Anybody can see them at squeakyleak.org. 170 00:08:59,790 --> 00:09:05,420 The yellow map pins are where the leaks are unrepaired, 171 00:09:05,420 --> 00:09:09,800 and the reds are where they were repaired the previous year. 172 00:09:09,800 --> 00:09:13,310 And there's just a lot of them. 173 00:09:13,310 --> 00:09:15,440 And this was some of the-- 174 00:09:15,440 --> 00:09:19,490 really transformative for a lot of people, 175 00:09:19,490 --> 00:09:21,050 because then they could actually see 176 00:09:21,050 --> 00:09:26,390 where the leaks were near their home, near their kids school, 177 00:09:26,390 --> 00:09:27,950 near their business, et cetera. 178 00:09:27,950 --> 00:09:30,710 It made the, not only invisible visible, 179 00:09:30,710 --> 00:09:35,030 but it also made the global local. 180 00:09:35,030 --> 00:09:38,660 And then I'll finally finish up with one last thing, which 181 00:09:38,660 --> 00:09:44,276 is some other parts of Nathan's research, 182 00:09:44,276 --> 00:09:45,650 as well as Margaret Hendrick, who 183 00:09:45,650 --> 00:09:49,495 is a graduate student, a postdoctoral student here 184 00:09:49,495 --> 00:09:53,300 at BU, is they surveyed a hundred gas leaks in Boston 185 00:09:53,300 --> 00:10:01,160 to find that just 7% of them emit 50% of the gas by volume. 186 00:10:01,160 --> 00:10:03,710 So that means-- as soon as you know that, you know, 187 00:10:03,710 --> 00:10:07,610 OK, the whole thing is to find and fix those leaks. 188 00:10:07,610 --> 00:10:11,150 So through a lot of work, through all 189 00:10:11,150 --> 00:10:14,030 the different people who are interested in this, 190 00:10:14,030 --> 00:10:16,700 we managed to get, we helped to get 191 00:10:16,700 --> 00:10:19,430 a state law passed that those leaks will 192 00:10:19,430 --> 00:10:22,025 have to be found and fixed. 193 00:10:22,025 --> 00:10:23,900 And so one of the things we're going be doing 194 00:10:23,900 --> 00:10:26,720 is, at the hackathon, we'll hopefully 195 00:10:26,720 --> 00:10:29,630 be trying to figure out a method that's 196 00:10:29,630 --> 00:10:32,450 utility friendly for the utilities 197 00:10:32,450 --> 00:10:37,940 to measure the emissions off of each one of these theoretically 198 00:10:37,940 --> 00:10:38,785 high volume leaks. 199 00:10:41,400 --> 00:10:44,270 Because if we don't have feedback for the system, 200 00:10:44,270 --> 00:10:48,050 they're probably going to find whatever leaks are convenient 201 00:10:48,050 --> 00:10:50,000 and call those high volume, and fix them. 202 00:10:50,000 --> 00:10:51,708 Because they don't know how to do it yet. 203 00:10:51,708 --> 00:10:53,910 Nobody does-- how to find the leaks. 204 00:10:53,910 --> 00:10:55,473 Yeah? 205 00:10:55,473 --> 00:10:57,240 AUDIENCE: Have you checked on the response 206 00:10:57,240 --> 00:10:58,756 of National Grid or other utilities 207 00:10:58,756 --> 00:11:00,506 about their capacity to repair these leaks 208 00:11:00,506 --> 00:11:02,881 and also compare that to the new leaks that have emerged? 209 00:11:13,132 --> 00:11:15,465 AUDREY SCHULMAN: Yeah, I met with a lot of other people. 210 00:11:15,465 --> 00:11:18,140 I met with National Grid on Friday. 211 00:11:18,140 --> 00:11:22,010 They say they've hired a whole bunch of new people, 212 00:11:22,010 --> 00:11:25,010 and they say they will have the capacity to do this, 213 00:11:25,010 --> 00:11:27,770 to fix all these leaks. 214 00:11:27,770 --> 00:11:29,750 But what I want them to do is be transparent 215 00:11:29,750 --> 00:11:33,890 about their information so anybody 216 00:11:33,890 --> 00:11:35,729 can check that they fixed the right leaks, 217 00:11:35,729 --> 00:11:38,270 that the leaks were fixed, that you know, so on and so forth. 218 00:11:38,270 --> 00:11:42,290 Because the more transparency we have, 219 00:11:42,290 --> 00:11:45,700 the more researchers can look at stuff and citizens can, too. 220 00:11:45,700 --> 00:11:49,255 AUDIENCE: Is there color coding near the [INAUDIBLE] 221 00:11:49,255 --> 00:11:52,790 AUDREY SCHULMAN: No, in this case I was mapping, 222 00:11:52,790 --> 00:11:55,000 the pink ones are super-emitters, 223 00:11:55,000 --> 00:11:56,780 the high-volume gas leaks. 224 00:11:56,780 --> 00:11:58,900 The yellow ones are not. 225 00:11:58,900 --> 00:12:02,034 They're just normal gas leaks. 226 00:12:02,034 --> 00:12:03,950 NATHAN PHILLIPS: Maybe I'll just add something 227 00:12:03,950 --> 00:12:07,580 about the community science and the opportunities 228 00:12:07,580 --> 00:12:09,950 for just being creative here. 229 00:12:09,950 --> 00:12:13,160 And I think it's just is embodied by the collaboration 230 00:12:13,160 --> 00:12:17,840 that Audrey and I have so well was, to do this study, 231 00:12:17,840 --> 00:12:19,880 we had to think of methods that were 232 00:12:19,880 --> 00:12:24,710 a little out of the box, a little bit about found objects 233 00:12:24,710 --> 00:12:25,640 fortuitous stuff. 234 00:12:25,640 --> 00:12:29,302 Because there's no real kit to measure gas leaks that you 235 00:12:29,302 --> 00:12:32,480 can buy from some-- we were making this up as we go. 236 00:12:32,480 --> 00:12:36,560 So, for example, we found out that the best kind of chamber 237 00:12:36,560 --> 00:12:39,490 to measure what's coming out of man holes 238 00:12:39,490 --> 00:12:42,130 is a turtle shell from a sandbox. 239 00:12:42,130 --> 00:12:46,600 So it fits right over with a known volume, 240 00:12:46,600 --> 00:12:50,440 and you get that for $20 instead of having a machine 241 00:12:50,440 --> 00:12:52,760 shop make it for $1,000. 242 00:12:52,760 --> 00:12:54,680 So there's that level of creativity. 243 00:12:54,680 --> 00:12:57,980 And just yesterday Audrey came up 244 00:12:57,980 --> 00:13:03,390 with the use of a pinwheel that might be able the mix the air 245 00:13:03,390 --> 00:13:04,640 that we need to measure. 246 00:13:04,640 --> 00:13:06,290 And it's the kind of thing that it's 247 00:13:06,290 --> 00:13:09,560 like, once she said that, it's like, yeah perfect, you know, 248 00:13:09,560 --> 00:13:10,340 a pinwheel. 249 00:13:10,340 --> 00:13:14,660 So I think, in the hackathon, there will be opportunities 250 00:13:14,660 --> 00:13:18,380 to think about how we might go about doing something 251 00:13:18,380 --> 00:13:23,060 in a cost-effective way without doing it kind of like, 252 00:13:23,060 --> 00:13:26,720 you know, NASA does in their multimillion dollar 253 00:13:26,720 --> 00:13:28,250 laboratories. 254 00:13:28,250 --> 00:13:32,570 you find-- you had your test going out with the truck. 255 00:13:32,570 --> 00:13:35,120 And then you had the DPU emissions data. 256 00:13:35,120 --> 00:13:38,760 Did you find any leaks that were not on the DPU National Grid 257 00:13:38,760 --> 00:13:39,260 list? 258 00:13:39,260 --> 00:13:40,343 AUDREY SCHULMAN: Oh, yeah. 259 00:13:42,680 --> 00:13:46,430 With Metropolitan Area Planning Council, HEET, my nonprofit, 260 00:13:46,430 --> 00:13:51,050 has done a survey of 15 different municipalities. 261 00:13:55,400 --> 00:14:00,440 We found 1.7 times more leaks than the utilities reported. 262 00:14:00,440 --> 00:14:02,300 And there's lots of other stuff that we 263 00:14:02,300 --> 00:14:09,370 found that makes us question the utility data. 264 00:14:09,370 --> 00:14:10,314 NATHAN PHILLIPS: Paul. 265 00:14:10,314 --> 00:14:13,770 AUDIENCE: Nathan, thank you [INAUDIBLE] 266 00:14:13,770 --> 00:14:16,385 question and a comment. 267 00:14:16,385 --> 00:14:19,266 Question, how do you know where the super emitters are now 268 00:14:19,266 --> 00:14:21,564 on the map, given that you're still 269 00:14:21,564 --> 00:14:25,540 in the process of measuring, as I understand? 270 00:14:25,540 --> 00:14:29,310 NATHAN PHILLIPS: So we did this survey, the driving survey, 271 00:14:29,310 --> 00:14:33,060 that measured 3,356 leaks in Boston. 272 00:14:33,060 --> 00:14:34,497 But that's just detecting leaks. 273 00:14:34,497 --> 00:14:36,330 That doesn't tell us how much is coming out. 274 00:14:36,330 --> 00:14:40,970 So then subsequently to that, we went out with these chambers. 275 00:14:40,970 --> 00:14:42,960 Some of them were the turtle shell. 276 00:14:42,960 --> 00:14:45,550 Some of them were five gallon buckets with a slot cut out 277 00:14:45,550 --> 00:14:47,040 so it could go up to a curd. 278 00:14:47,040 --> 00:14:52,070 Because sometimes it comes out these complex geometries. 279 00:14:52,070 --> 00:14:56,340 And so we did the laborious task of going back 280 00:14:56,340 --> 00:14:59,880 to 100 of those 3,356 leaks. 281 00:14:59,880 --> 00:15:02,430 And measuring how much just coming out using this chamber 282 00:15:02,430 --> 00:15:03,756 technique. 283 00:15:03,756 --> 00:15:06,730 And from that the statistics of those 100 leaks 284 00:15:06,730 --> 00:15:09,660 showed that seven of them accounted 285 00:15:09,660 --> 00:15:13,320 for 50% of the total lost gas. 286 00:15:13,320 --> 00:15:15,240 AUDIENCE: So you've done a sample, but not 287 00:15:15,240 --> 00:15:17,749 comprehesive in any regard. 288 00:15:17,749 --> 00:15:18,790 NATHAN PHILLIPS: Exactly. 289 00:15:18,790 --> 00:15:21,510 It might be more like-- if we get the whole thing over again, 290 00:15:21,510 --> 00:15:26,070 maybe pick another 100 leaks, it may be that 10 of them 291 00:15:26,070 --> 00:15:28,970 accounted for 50%, or maybe 6. 292 00:15:28,970 --> 00:15:31,840 Right, it was a sample. 293 00:15:31,840 --> 00:15:34,860 We know that it's not a bell shaped curve, 294 00:15:34,860 --> 00:15:36,304 and you've got an average leak. 295 00:15:36,304 --> 00:15:37,720 And some were a little bit higher. 296 00:15:37,720 --> 00:15:39,094 And some were a little bit lower. 297 00:15:39,094 --> 00:15:41,180 The distribution has a long tail. 298 00:15:41,180 --> 00:15:43,476 There's a few big ones. 299 00:15:43,476 --> 00:15:44,970 And a lot of small ones. 300 00:15:44,970 --> 00:15:47,882 AUDIENCE: Now my comment is antecdotal, but it's true. 301 00:15:47,882 --> 00:15:51,950 In one town that I was working with, I won't name the town, 302 00:15:51,950 --> 00:15:55,725 the report was that when they had a gas leak, 303 00:15:55,725 --> 00:15:58,470 and the citizen complained enough, that they would exactly 304 00:15:58,470 --> 00:15:59,660 come out and fix the leak. 305 00:15:59,660 --> 00:16:03,110 But they didn't fix it well the first time. 306 00:16:03,110 --> 00:16:06,750 They sometimes have to come back and do it five times. 307 00:16:06,750 --> 00:16:10,115 And the reason for that is that the gas companies 308 00:16:10,115 --> 00:16:14,790 get paid based on the amount of work that they do. 309 00:16:14,790 --> 00:16:17,160 So if they do the same work over and over again, 310 00:16:17,160 --> 00:16:19,860 the get paid each time for it. 311 00:16:19,860 --> 00:16:23,700 So as you're engaging in this mentoring and monitoring, 312 00:16:23,700 --> 00:16:26,100 I do completely agree with the fact 313 00:16:26,100 --> 00:16:31,140 that some amount of oversight, or review, 314 00:16:31,140 --> 00:16:35,995 or checking up on ones that they say have been fixed 315 00:16:35,995 --> 00:16:39,700 would be a good part of the plan. 316 00:16:39,700 --> 00:16:42,530 AUDREY SCHULMAN: Yeah, I think transparency 317 00:16:42,530 --> 00:16:45,550 and watchdogs are good for any industry. 318 00:16:48,854 --> 00:16:53,410 AUDIENCE: Have you projected, just in a dream-like way, 319 00:16:53,410 --> 00:16:57,212 how much gas could be contained, and how much 320 00:16:57,212 --> 00:17:00,309 that would reduce any demand? 321 00:17:00,309 --> 00:17:01,850 NATHAN PHILLIPS: So the best estimate 322 00:17:01,850 --> 00:17:07,000 that we have for amount of lost gas comes from a study 323 00:17:07,000 --> 00:17:09,250 that we did in collaboration with Harvard 324 00:17:09,250 --> 00:17:14,050 University, Catherine McKain, Steve Wofsy and their lab. 325 00:17:14,050 --> 00:17:17,050 And we estimated that a little less than 3% 326 00:17:17,050 --> 00:17:19,720 of the amount gas that's delivered into the service area 327 00:17:19,720 --> 00:17:21,760 is leaked out. 328 00:17:21,760 --> 00:17:25,300 So that may not sound like a lot, the 3%, 329 00:17:25,300 --> 00:17:29,780 but because of the power of methane as a greenhouse gas, 330 00:17:29,780 --> 00:17:32,270 it has an outsized effect. 331 00:17:32,270 --> 00:17:35,380 And so that's why a 3% turns into about 10% 332 00:17:35,380 --> 00:17:39,010 of the total commonwealth's greenhouse gas emissions 333 00:17:39,010 --> 00:17:40,210 inventory at that level. 334 00:17:40,210 --> 00:17:45,310 So if you took that 3% leaked gas down to zero, 335 00:17:45,310 --> 00:17:49,240 you'd save the commonwealth 10% of its greenhouse gas emissions 336 00:17:49,240 --> 00:17:50,440 inventory. 337 00:17:50,440 --> 00:17:52,890 And about $90 million dollars per year 338 00:17:52,890 --> 00:17:55,570 was the cost of the commodity at the time 339 00:17:55,570 --> 00:17:57,670 that the study was done. 340 00:17:57,670 --> 00:18:00,612 Gas is volatile so that number changes. 341 00:18:00,612 --> 00:18:02,320 AUDIENCE: But there's another observation 342 00:18:02,320 --> 00:18:04,730 in that, which is that 3% just in itself 343 00:18:04,730 --> 00:18:11,017 would reduce to peak load demand for gas by 3%. 344 00:18:11,017 --> 00:18:13,160 And when they talk about new pipelines, 345 00:18:13,160 --> 00:18:18,168 they're increasingly talking about a 5% definciancy 346 00:18:18,168 --> 00:18:21,034 in our peak load capacity level. 347 00:18:21,034 --> 00:18:24,380 So you can definitely mitigate the need 348 00:18:24,380 --> 00:18:27,050 for disposing the new pipelines if you were 349 00:18:27,050 --> 00:18:28,300 to come out and fix the leaks. 350 00:18:28,300 --> 00:18:30,591 NATHAN PHILLIPS: That is an excellent, excellent point. 351 00:18:33,690 --> 00:18:36,140 We'll do here and then there. 352 00:18:36,140 --> 00:18:37,610 AUDIENCE: Don't you have a problem 353 00:18:37,610 --> 00:18:40,774 of how you put all these dollars together, 354 00:18:40,774 --> 00:18:43,656 because there's $90 million dollars that I understand 355 00:18:43,656 --> 00:18:47,795 that ratepayers paying the leak gas that we don't know about. 356 00:18:47,795 --> 00:18:49,805 We don't know her. 357 00:18:49,805 --> 00:18:53,200 And then there's this fund that they have for fixing leaks. 358 00:18:53,200 --> 00:18:55,733 And then there's the mountain lines 359 00:18:55,733 --> 00:18:58,642 that they're using for developing a new pipeline. 360 00:18:58,642 --> 00:19:02,162 And those are all coming out of different pocketbooks, I think. 361 00:19:02,162 --> 00:19:04,182 And it seems that if you don't figure out 362 00:19:04,182 --> 00:19:07,315 how to put them together, how about-- 363 00:19:07,315 --> 00:19:11,750 OK, stop making us pay $90 million for wasted gas. 364 00:19:11,750 --> 00:19:15,840 Let's use the $90 million and fix the leaks, 365 00:19:15,840 --> 00:19:18,090 and then don't use the money that we're 366 00:19:18,090 --> 00:19:20,810 going to build a pipeline for and fix the leaks. 367 00:19:20,810 --> 00:19:23,830 So because this is all about money at the end of the day. 368 00:19:23,830 --> 00:19:25,219 It's all anybody cares about when 369 00:19:25,219 --> 00:19:27,746 you [INAUDIBLE] company, either that or the people being 370 00:19:27,746 --> 00:19:30,896 mad at them in the public, which ultimately is about the money 371 00:19:30,896 --> 00:19:32,320 issues as well. 372 00:19:32,320 --> 00:19:35,804 So have you thought about how you [INAUDIBLE] 373 00:19:35,804 --> 00:19:37,692 to put those together? 374 00:19:41,300 --> 00:19:42,800 AUDREY SCHULMAN: One of the things-- 375 00:19:42,800 --> 00:19:43,850 AUDIENCE: [INAUDIBLE] 376 00:19:43,850 --> 00:19:44,933 AUDREY SCHULMAN: Well, no. 377 00:19:44,933 --> 00:19:47,510 One of the things, I think, that would be most effective 378 00:19:47,510 --> 00:19:51,500 is if the utilities had to pay for the cost of the lost gas. 379 00:19:51,500 --> 00:19:54,140 If they did, as soon as they did, 380 00:19:54,140 --> 00:19:57,770 I think we'd see a massive amount of repair happening 381 00:19:57,770 --> 00:20:00,410 a hell of a lot faster. 382 00:20:00,410 --> 00:20:02,390 That that's what happened in Texas. 383 00:20:02,390 --> 00:20:03,800 They passed a law saying that. 384 00:20:03,800 --> 00:20:06,350 And within-- and I'm going to get this wrong now-- 385 00:20:06,350 --> 00:20:10,580 within three years, they had 50% of the leaks fixed. 386 00:20:10,580 --> 00:20:13,965 So it's just incentives. 387 00:20:13,965 --> 00:20:15,340 NATHAN PHILLIPS: What I heard was 388 00:20:15,340 --> 00:20:18,200 on the day that the legislature, the end 389 00:20:18,200 --> 00:20:20,670 of the legislative session last year, when the energy 390 00:20:20,670 --> 00:20:23,960 omnibus bill was finally passed at-- whatever-- two o'clock 391 00:20:23,960 --> 00:20:29,982 in the morning, I think that's when the provision that 392 00:20:29,982 --> 00:20:34,110 would include the incentives, the cost of the lost gas 393 00:20:34,110 --> 00:20:38,000 gets shipped into the companies was gone. 394 00:20:38,000 --> 00:20:42,380 So there's a lot of logging going on over who's 395 00:20:42,380 --> 00:20:44,176 paying for the lost gas. 396 00:20:44,176 --> 00:20:45,104 That's a problem. 397 00:20:45,104 --> 00:20:46,687 AUDIENCE: Well, but what you're saying 398 00:20:46,687 --> 00:20:49,170 is that's the first place to start, start 399 00:20:49,170 --> 00:20:53,530 by not taking the $90 million and using it to fix the leaks, 400 00:20:53,530 --> 00:20:55,580 taking $90 million and say ratepayers 401 00:20:55,580 --> 00:20:58,360 you keep it in your pocket until the gas 402 00:20:58,360 --> 00:20:59,360 company's paying for it. 403 00:20:59,360 --> 00:21:02,247 But that's a really simple-- any legislator can figure that out, 404 00:21:02,247 --> 00:21:04,330 or any member of the public could figure that out. 405 00:21:04,330 --> 00:21:05,673 You make it really simple. 406 00:21:05,673 --> 00:21:07,881 NATHAN PHILLIPS: That was the provision [INAUDIBLE].. 407 00:21:07,881 --> 00:21:08,354 AUDIENCE: Well, I know. 408 00:21:08,354 --> 00:21:10,960 But the public [INAUDIBLE] in the middle of the night 409 00:21:10,960 --> 00:21:12,355 is that the public is asleep. 410 00:21:12,355 --> 00:21:13,996 NATHAN PHILLIPS: Right, exactly. 411 00:21:13,996 --> 00:21:17,604 AUDIENCE: Just when they emit the gas. 412 00:21:17,604 --> 00:21:19,480 AUDREY SCHULMAN: Yep. 413 00:21:19,480 --> 00:21:21,040 AUDIENCE: So with the infrastructure 414 00:21:21,040 --> 00:21:26,780 being this old, I'm worried if you fix the leaks in one spot, 415 00:21:26,780 --> 00:21:28,590 because it's [INAUDIBLE] of pressure, 416 00:21:28,590 --> 00:21:32,380 then it will just create leaks in other spots. 417 00:21:32,380 --> 00:21:37,600 So has there been any study of what happens 418 00:21:37,600 --> 00:21:39,222 when you fix leaks? 419 00:21:39,222 --> 00:21:41,480 NATHAN PHILLIPS: Do you want to take it? 420 00:21:41,480 --> 00:21:43,350 AUDREY SCHULMAN: We both can answer. 421 00:21:43,350 --> 00:21:44,610 NATHAN PHILLIPS: You go first. 422 00:21:44,610 --> 00:21:46,350 AUDREY SCHULMAN: I think a lot in Boston, 423 00:21:46,350 --> 00:21:47,766 a lot of the pressure in the pipes 424 00:21:47,766 --> 00:21:49,700 is about half pound per square inch. 425 00:21:49,700 --> 00:21:53,580 So fixing a leak in one spot is really not 426 00:21:53,580 --> 00:21:56,190 going to make any discernible difference. 427 00:21:56,190 --> 00:21:59,217 And the pressure's supposed to be maintained evenly 428 00:21:59,217 --> 00:22:01,800 across the system, otherwise the people at the end of the line 429 00:22:01,800 --> 00:22:03,008 would not be getting any gas. 430 00:22:03,008 --> 00:22:07,140 So there is the question that hammering into the ground 431 00:22:07,140 --> 00:22:08,820 and moving stuff could potentially 432 00:22:08,820 --> 00:22:10,560 displace a little bit of-- 433 00:22:10,560 --> 00:22:13,440 move the joint of the pipe a teeny bit, 434 00:22:13,440 --> 00:22:15,649 although I wonder if that's actually true. 435 00:22:15,649 --> 00:22:16,190 Your thought? 436 00:22:16,190 --> 00:22:17,106 NATHAN PHILLIPS: Yeah. 437 00:22:17,106 --> 00:22:18,750 It's a pressure-regulated system. 438 00:22:18,750 --> 00:22:20,460 So if you patch a leak, they're just 439 00:22:20,460 --> 00:22:23,550 going to turn down the flow to maintain the-- so 440 00:22:23,550 --> 00:22:26,200 it's not going to induce a higher leak rate elsewhere. 441 00:22:26,200 --> 00:22:29,460 But it is a Band-Aid solution to patch, 442 00:22:29,460 --> 00:22:33,690 because every 12 feet on a cast iron pipe is a joint. 443 00:22:34,300 --> 00:22:36,110 And you often have a series of leaks, 444 00:22:36,110 --> 00:22:38,970 so then you're facing the question, 445 00:22:38,970 --> 00:22:43,320 do you repair or replace? 446 00:22:43,320 --> 00:22:45,570 And there's a whole other set of considerations 447 00:22:45,570 --> 00:22:46,860 in terms of money. 448 00:22:46,860 --> 00:22:48,620 Cost. 449 00:22:48,620 --> 00:22:52,560 And I'm still very ambivalent about whether we should triage 450 00:22:52,560 --> 00:22:55,170 the system that we have as we transition 451 00:22:55,170 --> 00:22:57,480 to electrifying our heating system 452 00:22:57,480 --> 00:23:00,420 and making the transition to a clean energy-- 453 00:23:00,420 --> 00:23:03,510 a non-fossil energy-- or do we actually 454 00:23:03,510 --> 00:23:07,860 invest in replacing pipes that are going to be down 455 00:23:07,860 --> 00:23:10,680 for another 30, 40, 50 years? 456 00:23:10,680 --> 00:23:13,545 So, it's a tough call. 457 00:23:13,545 --> 00:23:15,200 AUDIENCE: Is the technology-- 458 00:23:15,200 --> 00:23:17,670 are they discussing technology and the composition of pipes 459 00:23:17,670 --> 00:23:20,910 that would be more long-term and less susceptible to-- 460 00:23:20,910 --> 00:23:22,140 NATHAN PHILLIPS: Not really. 461 00:23:22,140 --> 00:23:24,860 Plastic is what's being put down now. 462 00:23:24,860 --> 00:23:28,810 And it's not leaking because it's new. 463 00:23:28,810 --> 00:23:31,860 They don't really know, as far as I know, 464 00:23:31,860 --> 00:23:35,430 how acids in the soil and weathering and all 465 00:23:35,430 --> 00:23:39,330 of these kinds of things-- what the influence on the plastic 466 00:23:39,330 --> 00:23:40,470 will be. 467 00:23:40,470 --> 00:23:44,190 There's nothing inherently wrong with cast iron pipe, 468 00:23:44,190 --> 00:23:45,020 except it's old. 469 00:23:45,020 --> 00:23:47,520 If it was new cast-iron pie-- 470 00:23:47,520 --> 00:23:49,590 of course, that's more energy intensive to make-- 471 00:23:49,590 --> 00:23:53,736 but it's really just the age factor, I think. 472 00:23:53,736 --> 00:23:55,610 AUDREY SCHULMAN: Although I just want to say, 473 00:23:55,610 --> 00:23:57,410 I keep thinking dentists can come up 474 00:23:57,410 --> 00:23:59,480 with stuff that can fix teeth that 475 00:23:59,480 --> 00:24:05,390 are in saliva and acidic stuff and under incredible pressure 476 00:24:05,390 --> 00:24:06,230 and stuff like that. 477 00:24:06,230 --> 00:24:07,896 Why can't anybody come up with something 478 00:24:07,896 --> 00:24:10,820 that we could just coat the pipes on the inside? 479 00:24:10,820 --> 00:24:15,475 So, you know, go ahead. 480 00:24:15,475 --> 00:24:20,002 AUDIENCE: I was curious how broad a number 481 00:24:20,002 --> 00:24:22,457 of the people who have been doing this sort of work, you 482 00:24:22,457 --> 00:24:26,385 might have across the country-- other cities around the world-- 483 00:24:26,385 --> 00:24:27,858 are you in touch with folks? 484 00:24:31,295 --> 00:24:33,040 AUDREY SCHULMAN: Mostly Massachusetts. 485 00:24:33,040 --> 00:24:34,540 NATHAN PHILLIPS: You know, the study 486 00:24:34,540 --> 00:24:39,120 we did in Boston was the first study of its kind in the world. 487 00:24:39,120 --> 00:24:43,700 So things started bubbling out from here, literally I guess. 488 00:24:43,700 --> 00:24:46,980 But I think there's been a very strong what 489 00:24:46,980 --> 00:24:48,480 we call the gas leak's allies. 490 00:24:48,480 --> 00:24:51,300 The working group that we have that meets-- is it once a month 491 00:24:51,300 --> 00:24:52,080 or once a week? 492 00:24:52,080 --> 00:24:52,990 AUDREY SCHULMAN: Twice a month. 493 00:24:52,990 --> 00:24:54,350 NATHAN PHILLIPS: Twice a month. 494 00:24:54,350 --> 00:24:55,540 This core group. 495 00:24:55,540 --> 00:24:58,200 And Mothers Out Front has been amazing 496 00:24:58,200 --> 00:25:02,060 in terms of, essentially, keeping that and growing 497 00:25:02,060 --> 00:25:04,139 that network. 498 00:25:04,139 --> 00:25:06,680 You know, you're seeing research communities and other people 499 00:25:06,680 --> 00:25:10,470 in the science community doing this work in other locations. 500 00:25:10,470 --> 00:25:15,102 I haven't quite seen the network expand the way it has here, 501 00:25:15,102 --> 00:25:16,810 but the other interesting thing, I think, 502 00:25:16,810 --> 00:25:18,720 is that we're also realizing that there's 503 00:25:18,720 --> 00:25:21,560 this urban to rural interdependency. 504 00:25:21,560 --> 00:25:25,680 And so the pipeline issues connect us with, you know, 505 00:25:25,680 --> 00:25:27,480 rural Western Massachusetts. 506 00:25:27,480 --> 00:25:32,640 And the Kinder Morgan proposed pipeline going in there. 507 00:25:32,640 --> 00:25:35,790 The pipeline that connects us, in Boston, 508 00:25:35,790 --> 00:25:39,550 to New York, New Jersey, Connecticut. 509 00:25:39,550 --> 00:25:41,750 The Algonquin Incremental Market. 510 00:25:41,750 --> 00:25:43,140 The Spectra pipelines. 511 00:25:43,140 --> 00:25:47,580 That we are connected across the rural and urban communities 512 00:25:47,580 --> 00:25:49,810 by the same infrastructure. 513 00:25:49,810 --> 00:25:55,470 So I think that the fossil fuel infrastructure expansion 514 00:25:55,470 --> 00:26:00,930 physically starts to organize a social network of resistance 515 00:26:00,930 --> 00:26:03,840 that is co-located with that. 516 00:26:03,840 --> 00:26:08,370 And that we're stronger when we, as people, make 517 00:26:08,370 --> 00:26:11,790 the connections that are being made physically, to resist it 518 00:26:11,790 --> 00:26:14,749 in a concerted fashion. 519 00:26:14,749 --> 00:26:16,790 AUDIENCE: One more just quick technology, though. 520 00:26:16,790 --> 00:26:18,120 I read about it in [INAUDIBLE] Apparently 521 00:26:18,120 --> 00:26:20,260 there's a new kind of robot that they have. 522 00:26:20,260 --> 00:26:21,570 AUDREY SCHULMAN: The CISBOT? 523 00:26:21,570 --> 00:26:22,070 Yeah. 524 00:26:22,070 --> 00:26:25,500 AUDIENCE: That they can put into the pipes-- that can fix leaks 525 00:26:25,500 --> 00:26:27,841 from inside the pipe, without having 526 00:26:27,841 --> 00:26:30,270 to shut the gas line down and without having 527 00:26:30,270 --> 00:26:31,700 to dig up the streets. 528 00:26:31,700 --> 00:26:35,940 But they are phenomenally expensive robots, I guess. 529 00:26:35,940 --> 00:26:38,820 So that struck me when I read about it 530 00:26:38,820 --> 00:26:41,200 as a significant ray of hope that technology 531 00:26:41,200 --> 00:26:44,569 could once again come to the rescue here, so to speak. 532 00:26:44,569 --> 00:26:47,992 If we had more robots, then it might not be so economically 533 00:26:47,992 --> 00:26:57,080 difficult for the utilities to deal with the 20,000-odd leaks. 534 00:26:57,080 --> 00:26:58,160 AUDREY SCHULMAN: Yeah. 535 00:26:58,160 --> 00:26:59,585 Yeah. 536 00:26:59,585 --> 00:27:01,940 That robot-- they have to dig down to put it in, 537 00:27:01,940 --> 00:27:03,420 and it only has a limited expanse. 538 00:27:03,420 --> 00:27:07,710 So it needs so much improvement, it's stunning to me. 539 00:27:07,710 --> 00:27:10,660 Maybe. 540 00:27:10,660 --> 00:27:11,820 AUDIENCE: I'm from Chile. 541 00:27:11,820 --> 00:27:14,778 I work for an oil company in Chile. 542 00:27:14,778 --> 00:27:17,700 It's an operation company, and they'll 543 00:27:17,700 --> 00:27:22,570 have pipelines in the city, but only we extract oil and gas. 544 00:27:25,492 --> 00:27:30,690 We detect a lot of leaks of methane in operations, 545 00:27:30,690 --> 00:27:32,130 and it's really, really difficult 546 00:27:32,130 --> 00:27:35,296 to solve the problems. 547 00:27:35,296 --> 00:27:38,551 Sometimes you can measure it in one corner, 548 00:27:38,551 --> 00:27:42,239 but the leak is two blocks to the other side, 549 00:27:42,239 --> 00:27:43,892 because [INAUDIBLE]. 550 00:27:43,892 --> 00:27:46,723 And from the perspective of the oil 551 00:27:46,723 --> 00:27:52,570 and gas utility companies, only the first-- 552 00:27:52,570 --> 00:27:55,265 the priority is for the explosion. 553 00:27:55,265 --> 00:27:56,640 AUDREY SCHULMAN: Yeah, of course. 554 00:27:56,640 --> 00:27:58,020 AUDIENCE: This is the problem. 555 00:27:58,020 --> 00:28:04,190 I can say 2%, 4%, 5%. 556 00:28:04,190 --> 00:28:05,070 But that's OK. 557 00:28:05,070 --> 00:28:06,528 It's the effort to do the business. 558 00:28:15,690 --> 00:28:19,420 When the general manager or the manager of some assets 559 00:28:19,420 --> 00:28:23,096 know that he has a waste-- 560 00:28:23,096 --> 00:28:25,774 structural waste in the area-- 561 00:28:25,774 --> 00:28:28,580 he's really charged with this [INAUDIBLE].. 562 00:28:28,580 --> 00:28:30,729 If you put this information at an address, 563 00:28:30,729 --> 00:28:32,020 they are ready to move forward. 564 00:28:37,255 --> 00:28:38,171 NATHAN PHILLIPS: Yeah. 565 00:28:41,390 --> 00:28:44,670 AUDIENCE: Something happened, because they know. 566 00:28:44,670 --> 00:28:53,540 Something happened, [INAUDIBLE] I work for the oil company, 567 00:28:53,540 --> 00:28:56,590 but I know when you have risk, [INAUDIBLE],, 568 00:28:56,590 --> 00:29:00,020 you need to take this risk into account. 569 00:29:00,020 --> 00:29:03,372 [INAUDIBLE] 570 00:29:03,372 --> 00:29:05,080 NATHAN PHILLIPS: I would agree with that. 571 00:29:05,080 --> 00:29:07,960 You know, there's a nexus of issues associated with the gas 572 00:29:07,960 --> 00:29:12,560 leaks at the local scale, explosion risks, 573 00:29:12,560 --> 00:29:14,450 risks to vegetation and trees-- 574 00:29:14,450 --> 00:29:15,700 that's local. 575 00:29:15,700 --> 00:29:18,410 Air quality degradation is more of a regional thing. 576 00:29:18,410 --> 00:29:21,580 And then there's the global issue. 577 00:29:21,580 --> 00:29:25,810 And they're all issues, and they should all be considered. 578 00:29:25,810 --> 00:29:29,130 Because after our Boston study, I 579 00:29:29,130 --> 00:29:34,000 remember that I was on Greater Boston, the TV show. 580 00:29:34,000 --> 00:29:39,460 And the co-panelist was the Secretary 581 00:29:39,460 --> 00:29:42,036 of Energy and Environment for Massachusetts. 582 00:29:42,036 --> 00:29:44,920 And he said, thank you for the work you're doing, 583 00:29:44,920 --> 00:29:50,470 because you're giving me a way to make this issue. 584 00:29:50,470 --> 00:29:52,560 You know, because the explosion issue 585 00:29:52,560 --> 00:29:57,700 allowed him to push forward the climate change part of this. 586 00:29:57,700 --> 00:30:00,246 So, yeah, that's consistent with what you're saying. 587 00:30:00,246 --> 00:30:10,658 AUDIENCE: When you [INAUDIBLE] have you ever 588 00:30:10,658 --> 00:30:13,750 been talked to by somebody walking along? 589 00:30:13,750 --> 00:30:15,216 NATHAN PHILLIPS: All the time. 590 00:30:15,216 --> 00:30:19,240 AUDIENCE: So, why is the situation definitely like this? 591 00:30:23,054 --> 00:30:24,470 NATHAN PHILLIPS: Well, he's been-- 592 00:30:24,470 --> 00:30:31,090 Bob Ackley has been a lone voice for the last 30 years 593 00:30:31,090 --> 00:30:34,870 who has been struggling to be not just 594 00:30:34,870 --> 00:30:38,930 the only person who has been calling this issue out. 595 00:30:38,930 --> 00:30:43,768 And I think he feels-- 596 00:30:43,768 --> 00:30:46,060 I don't want to speak for him, but-- 597 00:30:46,060 --> 00:30:49,030 when people started to join with him, 598 00:30:49,030 --> 00:30:50,707 that's when I think he started to feel 599 00:30:50,707 --> 00:30:51,790 some level of vindication. 600 00:30:51,790 --> 00:30:54,220 That it's not just me. 601 00:30:56,740 --> 00:31:03,250 So as this network has grown larger, I think the changes-- 602 00:31:03,250 --> 00:31:06,550 the policy changes are happening because it's just everyone 603 00:31:06,550 --> 00:31:08,900 seeing that this is a problem. 604 00:31:08,900 --> 00:31:11,510 He's been struggling on his own for-- 605 00:31:11,510 --> 00:31:14,850 he worked for the gas companies to do leak surveys. 606 00:31:14,850 --> 00:31:19,480 So for much of his career, he was basically 607 00:31:19,480 --> 00:31:21,310 a worker for the gas company. 608 00:31:21,310 --> 00:31:22,560 Here's the leak reports. 609 00:31:22,560 --> 00:31:24,340 Here are the gas leaks. 610 00:31:24,340 --> 00:31:26,850 And he would notice trees were dying, 611 00:31:26,850 --> 00:31:30,610 and that the gas companies were not taking that seriously. 612 00:31:30,610 --> 00:31:32,952 They're like, well, we're not going to worry about that. 613 00:31:32,952 --> 00:31:34,160 And that really bothered him. 614 00:31:34,160 --> 00:31:38,890 So at some point, he defected and went out on his own 615 00:31:38,890 --> 00:31:42,730 because the trees were-- he felt like his work wasn't 616 00:31:42,730 --> 00:31:48,460 being taken seriously, and so he struck out on his own. 617 00:31:48,460 --> 00:31:52,420 It's one person and these massive investor-owned 618 00:31:52,420 --> 00:31:59,476 utilities that has made it very difficult. 619 00:31:59,476 --> 00:32:01,770 AUDIENCE: I saw your latest. 620 00:32:01,770 --> 00:32:03,640 You tweeted it. 621 00:32:03,640 --> 00:32:04,536 In Dedham? 622 00:32:04,536 --> 00:32:06,102 NATHAN PHILLIPS: Yeah. 623 00:32:06,102 --> 00:32:07,445 AUDIENCE: Is that a new line? 624 00:32:07,445 --> 00:32:08,320 NATHAN PHILLIPS: Yes. 625 00:32:08,320 --> 00:32:11,165 Yes, that's the West Roxbury lateral pipeline. 626 00:32:11,165 --> 00:32:13,330 AUDIENCE: And now it leaks? 627 00:32:13,330 --> 00:32:17,590 NATHAN PHILLIPS: Yeah, so I'm going to just show it. 628 00:32:17,590 --> 00:32:19,270 So we went out on Monday. 629 00:32:19,270 --> 00:32:19,830 A while back. 630 00:32:19,830 --> 00:32:23,640 Me and myself and my son. 631 00:32:23,640 --> 00:32:25,030 So you see these spikes. 632 00:32:25,030 --> 00:32:26,210 Something like this, right? 633 00:32:26,210 --> 00:32:28,306 You see the red spikes. 634 00:32:28,306 --> 00:32:31,420 And this is on a stretch of-- 635 00:32:31,420 --> 00:32:34,120 it's East Street in Dedham. 636 00:32:34,120 --> 00:32:38,060 Very close to Dedham center, right by where the Boston 637 00:32:38,060 --> 00:32:41,650 and Providence turnpike-- 638 00:32:41,650 --> 00:32:46,120 whatever it's called-- fast-moving thing. 639 00:32:46,120 --> 00:32:49,310 That stretch of East Street, which is about an eighth 640 00:32:49,310 --> 00:32:53,240 of a mile, is part of the pathway of the new West Roxbury 641 00:32:53,240 --> 00:32:58,940 lateral pipeline, which is a 750 pounds per square inch, 642 00:32:58,940 --> 00:33:01,930 two-foot diameter transmission pipeline 643 00:33:01,930 --> 00:33:06,020 spur that has been part of Spectra Energy. 644 00:33:06,020 --> 00:33:09,550 It's their project to increase the gas flow into Boston. 645 00:33:09,550 --> 00:33:13,570 And what's really disturbing about what we found on Monday 646 00:33:13,570 --> 00:33:16,270 is that this is where, in the last year, 647 00:33:16,270 --> 00:33:21,780 they've trenched that entire roadway and put this new pipe. 648 00:33:21,780 --> 00:33:28,232 Then they covered it up, paved new paving, new sidewalks, 649 00:33:28,232 --> 00:33:30,620 but they left leaking pipelines-- 650 00:33:30,620 --> 00:33:32,730 the low-pressure distribution pipelines-- 651 00:33:32,730 --> 00:33:34,480 they left them leaking, and that's 652 00:33:34,480 --> 00:33:38,560 where there's all of these leaks, one after the other. 653 00:33:38,560 --> 00:33:41,210 And so it was a missed opportunity. 654 00:33:41,210 --> 00:33:43,240 If you're going to dig up the street, 655 00:33:43,240 --> 00:33:46,660 don't leave hundred-year-old leaking pipelines there. 656 00:33:46,660 --> 00:33:47,560 Fix it. 657 00:33:47,560 --> 00:33:51,670 There's already patches, now, in this new pavement, 658 00:33:51,670 --> 00:33:54,383 which are going to mean potholes are going to form soon. 659 00:33:54,383 --> 00:33:56,091 AUDIENCE: Are these leaks the spokes that 660 00:33:56,091 --> 00:33:57,299 run off of the main pipeline? 661 00:34:01,474 --> 00:34:03,390 NATHAN PHILLIPS: They're the old distribution, 662 00:34:03,390 --> 00:34:05,590 low-pressure pipelines, that should've 663 00:34:05,590 --> 00:34:08,219 been fixed at the same time that they put the new pipeline in. 664 00:34:12,325 --> 00:34:13,449 AUDIENCE: So two questions. 665 00:34:13,449 --> 00:34:16,710 One, what's the name of the instrument? 666 00:34:16,710 --> 00:34:19,219 Are we going to learn more about it? 667 00:34:19,219 --> 00:34:22,679 And then two, how does the EPA rule [INAUDIBLE] 668 00:34:22,679 --> 00:34:23,679 impact any of this work? 669 00:34:28,630 --> 00:34:29,980 NATHAN PHILLIPS: OK. 670 00:34:29,980 --> 00:34:33,337 Yes, you get to go on the 31st. 671 00:34:33,337 --> 00:34:34,670 AUDIENCE: I'm out of town, darn! 672 00:34:34,670 --> 00:34:36,628 NATHAN PHILLIPS: Well, we can arrange something 673 00:34:36,628 --> 00:34:38,020 on another occasion, I'm sure. 674 00:34:38,020 --> 00:34:40,750 But we get in the van, you can see that the picture 675 00:34:40,750 --> 00:34:42,909 that Audrey showed-- 676 00:34:42,909 --> 00:34:47,065 it's called a cavity ring-down spectrometer. 677 00:34:47,065 --> 00:34:49,380 That's the technology. 678 00:34:49,380 --> 00:34:51,830 It's a laser technology. 679 00:34:51,830 --> 00:34:55,630 It has a little chamber in it that is evacuated down 680 00:34:55,630 --> 00:34:59,291 to about one fifth of a whole vacuum, so it's got about 20% 681 00:34:59,291 --> 00:35:02,334 of the air molecules that normal air would have in it. 682 00:35:02,334 --> 00:35:03,750 So it's pulled down to that level. 683 00:35:03,750 --> 00:35:05,990 It's about a one-liter chamber. 684 00:35:05,990 --> 00:35:08,800 And in that chamber, there are three mirrors 685 00:35:08,800 --> 00:35:10,430 that are pointed at each other. 686 00:35:10,430 --> 00:35:13,040 And then they pulse a laser into that 687 00:35:13,040 --> 00:35:19,178 that is tuned to the unique absorbance span for methane. 688 00:35:19,178 --> 00:35:24,370 And that pulse of laser bounces around the three mirrors. 689 00:35:24,370 --> 00:35:25,830 That's called ringing down. 690 00:35:25,830 --> 00:35:28,300 It's ringing in that thing and bouncing around. 691 00:35:28,300 --> 00:35:32,460 And the more concentration of methane there is in that air, 692 00:35:32,460 --> 00:35:36,850 the faster that pulse will decay to zero, because the molecules 693 00:35:36,850 --> 00:35:39,214 of methane are absorbing. 694 00:35:39,214 --> 00:35:40,630 So if there's no methane in there, 695 00:35:40,630 --> 00:35:43,010 it'll take a long time for that thing to decay-- 696 00:35:43,010 --> 00:35:44,700 that light pulse. 697 00:35:44,700 --> 00:35:47,772 So that's the basic method for the cavity ring-down 698 00:35:47,772 --> 00:35:48,730 spectrometer. 699 00:35:48,730 --> 00:35:52,105 AUDIENCE: Did you build that, or [INAUDIBLE] 700 00:35:52,105 --> 00:35:53,870 NATHAN PHILLIPS: The manufacturer 701 00:35:53,870 --> 00:35:56,670 for the instrument we use is called Picarro, 702 00:35:56,670 --> 00:35:58,880 and they're based in Santa Clara. 703 00:35:58,880 --> 00:36:03,360 The technology and the patents were mostly 704 00:36:03,360 --> 00:36:06,515 from Stanford University scientists. 705 00:36:06,515 --> 00:36:09,740 There's another firm that's doing the same basic kind 706 00:36:09,740 --> 00:36:14,480 of technology called Los Gatos out in that area of California 707 00:36:14,480 --> 00:36:16,390 as well. 708 00:36:16,390 --> 00:36:20,827 There's a few different flavors of this kind of method. 709 00:36:20,827 --> 00:36:23,160 AUDIENCE: So do you think that there's-- because this is 710 00:36:23,160 --> 00:36:25,820 an expensive instrument. 711 00:36:25,820 --> 00:36:27,002 How much does it cost? 712 00:36:27,002 --> 00:36:28,710 NATHAN PHILLIPS: This one was about $60k. 713 00:36:31,380 --> 00:36:33,990 AUDIENCE: So I'm thinking more in the community science 714 00:36:33,990 --> 00:36:36,230 direction. 715 00:36:36,230 --> 00:36:40,440 I think cheap lasers are becoming real, right? 716 00:36:40,440 --> 00:36:42,330 While maybe the mirror configuration 717 00:36:42,330 --> 00:36:45,830 might be the expensive piece there, 718 00:36:45,830 --> 00:36:51,330 is there a way to combine the pulse lasers and, using data, 719 00:36:51,330 --> 00:36:54,054 and other techniques to get more cheap results? 720 00:36:54,054 --> 00:36:54,970 NATHAN PHILLIPS: Well. 721 00:36:54,970 --> 00:36:55,830 Do you want to answer? 722 00:36:55,830 --> 00:36:56,886 I'm doing all the talking. 723 00:36:56,886 --> 00:36:57,969 AUDREY SCHULMAN: Go ahead. 724 00:36:57,969 --> 00:36:58,490 I'm happy. 725 00:36:58,490 --> 00:37:00,906 NATHAN PHILLIPS: I'll just say that I'm going to come back 726 00:37:00,906 --> 00:37:03,430 to some comment there. 727 00:37:03,430 --> 00:37:06,930 MIT, the people here? 728 00:37:06,930 --> 00:37:07,885 The robot thing? 729 00:37:07,885 --> 00:37:11,330 Yeah, we could have swarms of little tiny robots fixing 730 00:37:11,330 --> 00:37:13,770 pipelines, and MIT is a great community 731 00:37:13,770 --> 00:37:15,990 to come up with those types of solutions. 732 00:37:15,990 --> 00:37:22,040 And then, as well, low-cost sensors that could do this 733 00:37:22,040 --> 00:37:27,493 would unlock opportunities for a much wider group of people 734 00:37:27,493 --> 00:37:28,920 to be doing this stuff. 735 00:37:28,920 --> 00:37:29,550 AUDREY SCHULMAN: And I don't think 736 00:37:29,550 --> 00:37:30,758 they'll have to be expensive. 737 00:37:30,758 --> 00:37:32,610 Like there's this one technology where 738 00:37:32,610 --> 00:37:35,247 it's just something that goes on the pipe seal, 739 00:37:35,247 --> 00:37:37,830 between the two joints, because that's where most of the leaks 740 00:37:37,830 --> 00:37:38,640 come from. 741 00:37:38,640 --> 00:37:44,540 And if that link is broken, it tells the office. 742 00:37:44,540 --> 00:37:46,650 That's simple. 743 00:37:46,650 --> 00:37:48,300 Let's do something simple like that. 744 00:37:48,300 --> 00:37:49,230 That's not expensive. 745 00:37:49,230 --> 00:37:51,270 That's not hard. 746 00:37:51,270 --> 00:37:56,134 AUDIENCE: You can detect the leaks in operations, 747 00:37:56,134 --> 00:37:58,084 we use infrared camera-- 748 00:37:58,084 --> 00:37:59,000 AUDREY SCHULMAN: Yeah. 749 00:37:59,000 --> 00:38:01,291 AUDIENCE: You can see the flows, you couldn't measure-- 750 00:38:05,855 --> 00:38:06,813 NATHAN PHILLIPS: Right. 751 00:38:06,813 --> 00:38:09,524 AUDIENCE: Less flows, or more-- 752 00:38:09,524 --> 00:38:10,440 NATHAN PHILLIPS: Yeah. 753 00:38:10,440 --> 00:38:11,430 More qualitative-- 754 00:38:11,430 --> 00:38:21,210 AUDIENCE: But you can see, [INAUDIBLE] 755 00:38:21,210 --> 00:38:25,200 AUDIENCE: Very briefly mentioned that the town of Brookline 756 00:38:25,200 --> 00:38:30,670 has now passed two resolutions opposing natural gas pipeline 757 00:38:30,670 --> 00:38:31,870 expansion in Massachusetts. 758 00:38:31,870 --> 00:38:36,380 We're the first community to do such a thing where 759 00:38:36,380 --> 00:38:40,980 a pipeline was not scheduled to go through in our boundaries. 760 00:38:40,980 --> 00:38:42,864 And we'd be happy to-- 761 00:38:42,864 --> 00:38:45,930 Brookline town meeting-- to look into the issue of somehow 762 00:38:45,930 --> 00:38:49,701 pressuring the gas companies to more speedily 763 00:38:49,701 --> 00:38:53,180 address some issues and leaks in our town. 764 00:38:53,180 --> 00:38:55,730 Kind of a general pressure thing. 765 00:38:55,730 --> 00:38:56,840 [INAUDIBLE] 766 00:38:56,840 --> 00:38:57,973 AUDIENCE: I think that's something that Mothers 767 00:38:57,973 --> 00:38:59,097 Out Front is already doing. 768 00:39:03,520 --> 00:39:05,840 AUDREY SCHULMAN: And we want that. 769 00:39:05,840 --> 00:39:08,820 The more pressure they have, the more everybody 770 00:39:08,820 --> 00:39:09,660 takes it seriously. 771 00:39:09,660 --> 00:39:10,980 As it should be. 772 00:39:10,980 --> 00:39:14,650 PROFESSOR: So, we have three more sessions on the 23rd, 773 00:39:14,650 --> 00:39:16,740 which is the coming Monday. 774 00:39:16,740 --> 00:39:18,690 We have a hack-a-thon. 775 00:39:18,690 --> 00:39:23,987 and And again, we will be playing with two different ways 776 00:39:23,987 --> 00:39:25,070 of hacking with this data. 777 00:39:25,070 --> 00:39:29,080 One is more data-centric, more code-centric. 778 00:39:29,080 --> 00:39:32,460 The other might be more design charette-centric. 779 00:39:32,460 --> 00:39:33,314 So-- 780 00:39:33,314 --> 00:39:34,230 AUDIENCE: Visualizing. 781 00:39:34,230 --> 00:39:35,688 PROFESSOR: So visualizing the data. 782 00:39:35,688 --> 00:39:38,040 Again, depending on what your interests are, 783 00:39:38,040 --> 00:39:39,850 you can do one or the other. 784 00:39:39,850 --> 00:39:45,270 Do sign up on the CLIAP site, if you haven't already done so. 785 00:39:45,270 --> 00:39:49,230 The next session, on the 31st is driving around town, 786 00:39:49,230 --> 00:39:52,110 and smelling. 787 00:39:52,110 --> 00:39:54,550 I think that's going to be what we'll be doing. 788 00:39:54,550 --> 00:39:59,030 And finally, on the first, we will come back together 789 00:39:59,030 --> 00:40:03,660 and say, what can communities and citizens and scientists 790 00:40:03,660 --> 00:40:04,380 do with this? 791 00:40:04,380 --> 00:40:06,110 Can you take this to court? 792 00:40:06,110 --> 00:40:08,570 So, how do you build an ecosystem 793 00:40:08,570 --> 00:40:10,510 that addresses these challenges, and not 794 00:40:10,510 --> 00:40:13,710 just do it individually?